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Exceed Madtorque Super Experiment
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Thread: Exceed Madtorque Super Experiment

  1. #1
    Senior Member StartGateCrasher's Avatar
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    Exceed Madtorque Super Experiment

    I picked up an Exceed Madtourque Crawler from www.nitrorcx.com to toy with for fun. I don't understand how they can sell these that cheep and it not be Crap... So I'm going to find out just how good they are. That and I like messing with the stuff that isnít so popular.



    It should be here on Monday so I can start the testing and modification process. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

    <o>Thanks to www.RCPCrawlers.com I've got a set of 40 Series Axial Wheels on the way. I might have to narrow them a touch, I'm thinking down to 2-3 Inches but we will see. The strange thing is that RCP called me today to ask what color anodizing my rig was going to have???? Not sure what that has to do with anything but that's cool, just need my wheels.</o>
    <o></o>
    <o></o>
    <o> </o>
    I plan on taking a few set of Panther leopards and adding a section to them so that they fit on the 40 Series wheel. I totally suck at cut N shut so I havenít gotten the tires just yet. I want to use them for the super soft side wall then tune it internally with like a triple rate foam. Say, 1In hard, 2-3 inch Medium, 1 Inch super Soft and see how it works. I might see if www.crawlerinovations.com can do a special request for me. I love dealing with those guise, nothing but top notch work.

    That's the Start... If the Mad Torque sucks then I will be getting a set of super bully axles.

    To top it off, there will be a super ABdesigns chassis born or upsized... V84x4 requested my 4VP v3 chassis to be super sized for this super shafty build. It's looking prety sick - http://www.rccrawler.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302166 The next step is to take his input and make it even better... or I have another idea up my sleave, we shall see... perhaps I just have to buld 2 supers.... yeah, then my wife would devorce me for sure.:roll:

    Till the ups man arives.... out.



    So I contacted CrawlerPro about the chassis and topper he designed for his permission to use his design. From his file, I've changed it a touch for my liking. I'm not sure if I'm going the rout just yet, but just wanted to toss up the Idea.

    With 6.5in wheels, it should give me 3 inched clearance at the belly, and 17inch wheel Base.



    And we begin...

    Dislikes:

    1 - The C's are molded as part for the axle... Break a C Replace the whole housing. Not to mention you can't add caster without major modification.
    2 - Stock Wheels aren't Comp Legal... (easy Fix)
    3 - The Axle appears to be the same axle for the 1/10 scale with wide hex hubs, again not a big deal but does make the wheels wobble a touch.
    4 - Not much steering angle due to not having CVD's (I'll have to track some down.
    5 - The BODY!!!!
    6 - Piss Poor Factory Assembly - (Rear motor's mesh was too tight out of the box, front y-link wasn't put together, missing a body clip, Had to tighten some of the screws down, one C-Was stripped,)
    7 - Shock placement rubbed on the motor leads(move shocks to outside of chassis)
    8 - Not Zero Ackerman for the steering.

    Likes/potential

    1 - It would be fairly easy to make a bracket to run duel servos on the front and rear axle.
    2 - Thick 4mm wide steal gears in the trans
    3 - Lots of aluminum parts
    4 - 17mm hubs
    5 - Stock ESC will do 2S Lipo(Can't find that it has a low voltage cut off though)
    6 - $139 ARTR(just needs a receiver and radio)
    7 - 4WS easy to setup and only cost another $22(Crappy servo though)
    8 - Most replacment parts are $4 or less

    Over all, you get what you pay for, an inexpensive crawler to tinker on with lots of potential IMO. not to mention a lot of the parts look strangely similar to clod and even Axial... Hummm research time.

    What I've done so far.

    1 - Mounted the shocks on the outside for the chassis and adjusted to limit the flex.
    2 - 4WS with my Traxxas TQ 4 channel radio. Front Steer Normal, Rear steer on the 3 pos toggle. It works but you only have all the way left, strait or all the way right.


    VIDEO with 4WS


    3 - moved the drag link in one hole on the steering for slightly better steering.





    So i noticed when I was examining the drive train that the long half of the axle was oscillating as it rotated causing the transmission and everything to twist slightly and make a clicking noise come from their transmission. Mind you, I've only driven on the carpet so far.

    Called tech support and they told me to take it apart and find the problem and they would send me free replacement parts.

    Well, I've narrow it down to the Long axle side of the axle and the following parts. Axle - doesn't seam bent but doesn't look perfectly round on the diff side, Diff - the long axle is really tough to put in where's the short axle slides in and right out, The bearings - they appear fine but what the heck it's worth a shot, The axle tube - if the axle tub is bent or improperly formed then it will cause this issue.

    I'm having this issue with the front and rear axle... Hum



    While i have the axles out, I'm going to see if I can locate some CVD's to fit this bad boy. Based off this measurement, if you know of something that might fit, let me know. I have no doubt that the gears can handle the abuse... but the housing, i'm not so sure... we will find out soon .



    Last but not least, I got the Pro-line Moab on my Axial 40 series wheels... they are freaking huge.... I'm going to run it like this till my panther's get here so I can narrow the wheel and cut-n-shut the panthers.





    So after examination I realized that it would be super easy to mount two servos on the axle... Mind you I still need better servos but to crappy servos almost = 1 good one... weeeee.... :lmao:

    Alright enough of that.

    First you need...

    2 - Stock servo Plates
    2 - Servo mounts
    2 - 6mm Spacers
    1 - 3/8th in thick delrin.

    Step 1 - Chop off the old servo mount
    Step 2 - mount the 6mm spacer and the servo plate on the front hole that you can use to lock the steering out
    Step 3 - Cut you block of Delrin 20mm x 76mm
    Step 4 - Cut an arc in the delrin to clear the transmission(6mm at the peak)
    Step 5 - drill one hole on the bottom of each end to mount the the two servo plates(about 74mm apart) then mount the block to the servo plate. The block of delrin will now become the servo mount for one side of the servo.
    Step 6 - Still the 4 mounting holds for your servo.
    Step 7 - Mount the servo and attach the Y-Harness.
    Step 8 - Make your connecting rods(use turn buckles, it's a lot easier)
    Step 9 - Have Fun

    Here's a render of a mount that I might make, not mass production or anything. I would also include the 4 Link with a brace that would mount where the 3 Link does.



    Here's the pictures









    I love the big wheels,.. Can't wait for the panther's to do my cut and shut...

    Now all I need is two more servos and 1 more servo plate.


    Next up... a narrow skid and strech it out just a touch so I'll sit about about 17.5 inches.

    So after playing with this truck a Little more I realized that I need to limit the articulation. being able to plant one wheel on it's side wall while the rear wheels are flat on the ground is cool, but not effective for comp crawling...

    So I've limited the articulation to 8 inches. When I set up my comp rigs I alway limit the articulation to the hight of one tire and that seams to be a great place to start when tuning the rig...

    So to achieve this, I added a 3/4in spacer on all four shock shafts... It really stiffens the rig up and makes if feel a lot more crawler worthy.

    If you to 3/4 on the rear and 1/2 on the front, you will get about 10-12 inched of articulation, that felt like it was a touch too much.

    You can use rubber tubing or a plactic spacer to do this.

    So after a long day of packing and building a trailer to move my crap in one would think that I've be exhausted and pass out! No no no... I'm a crawling addict and my name is Adam! So even though I'm exhausted from all this moving, I forged on with some more mods since I had a few random Ideas though the day that I just had to try.

    I stretched the WB out to 17in... I thought it was going to be 17.5in but I guess exhaustion and math don't mix :roll:.



    I did this by taking that trusty block of Delrin 51mm wide and using it as a skid only I made it longer in the back to mount the lowers out an inch to spread the WB to 17in.

    So here it is. Narrowed





    And I figured out how to do the 4 link and to make that Cross brace sturdy enough. Not I've got 4 link in the font and 3 link in the rear. I think tomorrow I'm going to the LHS for an extra servo to get my rear steer back and some switches to mod my radio and build the dig.



    I think that I might narrow the rims and the moabs for a little better bite/less weight till my Panthers get here. and I'm going to get some narrower hex's becaus with the axial offet it make puts the track width at 16in and that feels a bid too wide.. I think 14-15 should be a good place to be.

    And pictures with my old Venom Creeper body because that stock body doesn't fit with the narrow chassis and I don't have any longer body posts. And full articulation.





    Well, I took her out on her maiden voyage then ripped out her motors for an "upgrade" to continue crawling... The stock motors with the big wheels gave me so much clod stall and wouldn't move in a bind that it was just ridiculous. So I went with my cheep favorite, the venom fireball 55T. I know, I know everyone's going to give my crap about these motors... but I run them in my XR-10 on 2S and 3S and have had nothing be good results so I thought I would try a set of them in the super...

    Fist off, they did give me more wheel speed, holding power and torque then the stock motors did, however I think all the electronics I'm running are too much for the ESC. 2 - 150oz Servos on the front, 1 - 380oz servo in the rear and 1-micro servo for the dig switch...

    I've got one BEC here that I'll wire up to the rear servo at 7.2v to get the max 460oz from it and that should help with the shuttering from the spedo... not it did shutter till I added all the servos. Then I'll have to get another BEC for the front once the $ permit.

    This esc Maxes at 8.4v according to the manuel... I really want to put some 3S power to it to get the max benefit from the 55T motors as I've fount 11.1v gives the Fireball motors their best performance. I did have some 7S NIMH packs for my SCT that I'm going to test out later in the week, I'm sure that will give me better results plus push some weight up front.

    Tech question (DIG) traditionally I've set my dig via mechanical switch killing the power to the desired motor... problem is, the 55T on a super just act like a free wheel. Not T's to hold it still. Is there any way to apply with a mechanical switch a low voltage to keep the rear motor locked? I could use a switch to reverse the current but then I'd have equal power forward and reverse, cool but that's a penalty every time i use it. I just don't have the $ for the duel esc and new 4CH radio at the moment.

    Any how, enough talk... here's the pictures from today and a video.

    VIDEO








    <table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">
    ~Adam
    ------------------------------
    Venom Creeper - 4VP v3
    Losi MRC - "M"VP v2
    Axial XR-10 - Rock Hawk Chassis
    Madtorque - Super Experiment

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  2. #2
    President JSLICK's Avatar
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    I like what you have done, "super" job.
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    Senior Member StartGateCrasher's Avatar
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    After having her out on the rocks I was noticing serious issues with the power the wheels put down to the rocks and the wheels seam to bounce and just be really slugish... I couldn't quite peg it down what the issues was...

    Well I got it in my head that a 16in Track and a 17in WB didn't seam to be so great... so I found these on e-bay for $10... Notice how much shorter they are... this brought my track width into 14 3/4 inches with the axial 40 series wheels.



    Lets do a comparison... you will notice how much closer the wheels look together. Looks nicer I think... well I slapped a battery in it and drove around the house a touch and my jaw almost hit the floor... it was alto more stable, and didn't feel like a boat. The wheels no longer hop and jitter on the traction board and for some reason I've got all the power I need now.

    After thinking about it the longer down a shaft you have to travel on a rotating mass the more torque you loose so by removing about 3/4 of and inch on each end of the axle this helps to increase the motor efficiency if I remember high school physics correctly.

    Another benefit - the narrower track will give less axle drag on rock edges.

    Last huge benefit --- those 2 $15 exceed servos feel like 1 - $100 hitech servo... again, moving the wheel closer to the pivot point will require less torque to move the wheels left to right...

    Before -


    After -


    New shots with the body and stickers...





    Next up is an experimental dig that I'm working on... In theory and according the the research I did today, it should give me exactly the holding power I need in the rear and even give me some new features... (Crab Walk on a budget)

    Till Next time.

    Almost forgot, my order from Crawler Inovations showed up... humm... this might be the project for this weekend as I've never done this before...

    <table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">
    ~Adam
    ------------------------------
    Venom Creeper - 4VP v3
    Losi MRC - "M"VP v2
    Axial XR-10 - Rock Hawk Chassis
    Madtorque - Super Experiment

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  4. #4
    Administrator brazwewn's Avatar
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    An interesting experiment.

    Wes

  5. #5
    Paid Website Supporter freak's Avatar
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    adam pop over to the jersey site and ask either turbo or dez for some pointers on how to do the tires they both have made their own tires for the supers they run. or even ask quirk

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    Super Moderator rik's Avatar
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    looks good. i cant wait to see what you do with this.... i agree with your comments on the 40 series moabs. they are big in person. i run those on the rear and rc4wd x-locks on the front. the x-locks are 7.25 tall.

  7. #7
    Senior Member StartGateCrasher's Avatar
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    Thanks guies... I plan on running this at Sweet Jennies for the first time just to see how well it works in a comp.

    Well, here's what i decided on for my Dig, Crab setup. The only issue I'm having is finding a switch to reverse the pole of the motor. I have the dig working. And I need to change the 2POS switch on CH3 on my 4TQ to a 3POS but I don't know how to do that.



    Heres a shot of what I have done. This is just the Dig. Now I have 4WS and DIG... just have to figure out the crab now.

    <table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">
    ~Adam
    ------------------------------
    Venom Creeper - 4VP v3
    Losi MRC - "M"VP v2
    Axial XR-10 - Rock Hawk Chassis
    Madtorque - Super Experiment

    [URL="http://www.eparccrawlers.com/forums/payments.php"][SIZE=4][B][COLOR=red]Become a supporting member today![/COLOR][/B][/SIZE][/URL]
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  8. #8
    Senior Member StartGateCrasher's Avatar
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    So today after the movers left i got out the old drill and ran a boly through the wheel so i can narrow them down. Then i cut a strip put of the moads added some sedona foams and now the tyres actualy seam to work early well. Not like rovers but better than before. Im going to run these for a while, then use the sidewalls with the panthers. I just dont want to wast most of a new set of moabs.

    Any how i used q-bond to hold the wheels together while the 2 part epoxy was setting up and i wraped the wheel with plastic tape to force epoxy through any cracks to get a good solid bond. This wasnt as hard as i thought it would be. I got two done in 2 hours then ran out of epoxy.

    Check it out so far.












    <table width="100%"><tbody><tr><td valign="top">
    ~Adam
    ------------------------------
    Venom Creeper - 4VP v3
    Losi MRC - "M"VP v2
    Axial XR-10 - Rock Hawk Chassis
    Madtorque - Super Experiment

    [URL="http://www.eparccrawlers.com/forums/payments.php"][SIZE=4][B][COLOR=red]Become a supporting member today![/COLOR][/B][/SIZE][/URL]
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    [URL="http://www.eparccrawlers.com/forums/showthread.php?855-Custom-made-signatures.&p=6569#post6569"]Want a custom signature like this?[/URL]


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  9. #9
    President JSLICK's Avatar
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    They turned out good, can't wait to see the Leopards when you get them done.
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    Looks like you still have a lot of stuff there for having movers just come.
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